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 Post subject: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:28 pm 
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sorry dood, you should have kept your tweets silent.

It's not what you said, it's how people who don't give a shit about you, where you came from and what you represent.... how they are using what you said to tear down everything you come from and claim to believe in.

Since so many people want to speculate about Dale, Sr. and what he would have thought and maybe said after he wasn't here anymore to say anything that is provable....


Dale, Sr. to Dale, Jr. : Boy, shut the fuck up and drive the car.

I concur with this speculative Dale, Sr. moment


jlb out :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Like too many, he wants to have it both ways.

Someone, I think it was Brady, mentioned "right to peaceful respectfully protest".

I fail to see how disrespecting the flag and the country is respectful.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:58 am 
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I don't begrudge his opinion. Not even a little bit. No matter how opportunistic it looks and misinformed it is.

I really do wish he would just concentrate on his last season on the circuit. He's a lot better than how his last year is going to be remembered. And for all of the reasons I've rambled on about the NFL and how it has made me feel, that's what bothers me about him weighing in.

And how FNC used it was, almost, depressing. I shudder to think about how the other punditry channels used it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:50 am 
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What I see is a guy that didn't look at the matter with any clarity.... they are employees at the football field to play football, not protest... the problem is nutless owners..... you allow an employee to run wild, they'll run wilder... If Kaperdick is fired on day one... none of this ever happens...

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:37 am 
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Employers were in on this last escapade....


And he didn't say anything but the truth when he quoted JFK - but everyone just decided to assume (you know - make an "ass" out of "u" and "me") that he meant he would take a knee.....


And there, in a nutshell, is what you have...

PS No one knows what Dale, Sr. would say to ANY of this....I know you can speculate from what we knew of the man when he was alive - but it's almost 17 years later; we have no concept of what he would have thought about this world that changed on 9/11/01 and every day since then....

I know this isn't a popular opinion....but it's mine....

Also, calling names doesn't make your point more valid...and is most of what is continuing to cause this divide... just my observation....

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:47 am 
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Speaking of employers, we got a company wide reminder not to discuss controversial topics.


Kapernick should not have been fired day 1, but he should have been warned work is not the place for this kind of stuff, and fired if he kept it up. He is in uniform representing his team, the NFL, and even the city.

Did you know the NFL has penalties for uniform infractions such as untucked shirts? It's because apoearnce matters.

This is the same NFL that denied the Cowboys request to wear a small sticker honoring the 5 cops BLM killed. They penalized RG3 for a t-shirt.

Hypocrits.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:59 am 
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RacerX wrote:
Speaking of employers, we got a company wide reminder not to discuss controversial topics.


Kapernick should not have been fired day 1, but he should have been warned work is not the place for this kind of stuff, and fired if he kept it up. He is in uniform representing his team, the NFL, and even the city.

Did you know the NFL has penalties for uniform infractions such as untucked shirts? It's because apoearnce matters.

This is the same NFL that denied the Cowboys request to wear a small sticker honoring the 5 cops BLM killed. They penalized RG3 for a t-shirt.

Hypocrits.

I concur

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:05 am 
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RacerX wrote:
Speaking of employers, we got a company wide reminder not to discuss controversial topics.


Kapernick should not have been fired day 1, but he should have been warned work is not the place for this kind of stuff, and fired if he kept it up. He is in uniform representing his team, the NFL, and even the city.

Did you know the NFL has penalties for uniform infractions such as untucked shirts? It's because apoearnce matters.

This is the same NFL that denied the Cowboys request to wear a small sticker honoring the 5 cops BLM killed. They penalized RG3 for a t-shirt.

Hypocrits.


Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:36 am 
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JRM88 wrote:
Employers were in on this last escapade....


And he didn't say anything but the truth when he quoted JFK - but everyone just decided to assume (you know - make an "ass" out of "u" and "me") that he meant he would take a knee.....


And there, in a nutshell, is what you have...

PS No one knows what Dale, Sr. would say to ANY of this....I know you can speculate from what we knew of the man when he was alive - but it's almost 17 years later; we have no concept of what he would have thought about this world that changed on 9/11/01 and every day since then....

I know this isn't a popular opinion....but it's mine....

Also, calling names doesn't make your point more valid...and is most of what is continuing to cause this divide... just my observation....


You know I didn't assume that, but you buttress my point about how those who don't give two shits about him are going to use him. That IS my point.

And one thing about Dale, Sr that needs to be mentioned since you went to where I was a long time ago. Right after he died. Dale wouldn't have liked this, or Dale would have stood against that or Dale would have said this or Dale would have said that.

Matt M wrote an outstanding piece illustrating that, in a firing back article about what he was then calling the stupidity and callousness of NASCAR. Y'all remember Matt, right? I always liked Matt. I liked his writing. :thumb:

It drove me crazy, nobody knew what he would have done because he wasn't here anymore. The people who used that tact, and they started right after he died, never balanced their opinion on what he would have said within the context of speculation. Most of them didn't even check their opinion with a disclaimer that they were making educated guesses about what Dale's thoughts would have been after he died. But it didn't stop them.

And that's why Dale, Jr. should have kept his opinion to himself until after the season was completed.

and y'all

get mad at me for my opinions, get mad at me for being so damn sure I'm right. I started walking away from the NFL back in 1994 when I dove into NASCAR feet first. In a way, NASCAR kept me focused on what the NFL still was and could remain if they'd just balance themselves. But they didn't. And.... sadly, neither did NASCAR. I am right, and this in a nutshell, is why I'm walking away from the NFL and NASCAR. And no, for some of the more obtuse amongst us.... it has nothing to do with this conversation I'm having with Chrissy. :wave:

Because ya see folks (you know who you are).... this is having a conversation. It's a strange art isn't it? :wave:

This is sad. It really is sad.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:46 am 
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my goodness when I'm right, I'm right.

Against my better judgement, I tuned in Glenn Beck. Not two minutes ago, some peacenik never Trumper is on, and Dale, Jr. got a mention about why it's ok to take a knee.

Maybe he really believes that, but as Chrissy said there is no evidence whatsoever that he suggested a knee should be taken during the anthem, but the context is already being weaved and it's a shot to be used against NASCAR because they came out in favor of standing.

Here we go....

This is the shit we all tuned in on Sundays to get away from for a few hours. Football, racing or even both.

And there ya go....

:banghead:

oh and screw Jerry Jones. Shot his mouth off, then took a knee. :banghead:

The guy that was on Beck thinks this is a 1st Amendment right to protest issue and that - because of people like Dale, Jr - it's going to turn the tide of the protest. This guy was categorized by Beck as somebody that is reasonable. Beck's entire premise is hatred of Trump. When I listen, that's the assumption I carry with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:59 am 
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Yes - the "assume" comment was about what others were saying......


Still proud to say, of all of my students, only one has sat through the pledge this week (and she has done that her entire high school career according to another student in the classroom - who volunteered that information privately on the way out of the classroom).....if you knew where I work, you would understand why I make the comment


PS The Penguins are now being told to not go to the WH for winning the Stanley Cup because of the seated president. Here's the thing: At NO POINT IN HISTORY (okay, relatively recent history but you will get my point) has the WH dinner for championships supposed to be considered an endorsement of anything the seated president represents. We have screwed the pooch in this nation....and I'm tired of it. Just my 0.02. *sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:13 pm 
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You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:29 pm 
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JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep, and I don't remember anyone bitching about it back then. What has changed?


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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Bham wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep, and I don't remember anyone bitching about it back then. What has changed?


It was even the punchline of one of Jeff Foxworthy's "You might be a redneck.."jokes.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:43 pm 
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Bham wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep, and I don't remember anyone bitching about it back then. What has changed?



Actively protesting the flag and country during the national anthem.


They weren't protesting by sitting in their frigging cars, it's just the way it was done back then. I don't think the pilots of the flyovers are unpatriotic just because they aren't standing respectful during the anthem. I do think participating in a protest against flag and country during the anthem is unpatriotic, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:52 pm 
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RacerX wrote:
Bham wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep, and I don't remember anyone bitching about it back then. What has changed?



Actively protesting the flag and country during the national anthem.


They weren't protesting by sitting in their frigging cars, it's just the way it was done back then. I don't think the pilots of the flyovers are unpatriotic just because they aren't standing respectful during the anthem. I do think participating in a protest against flag and country during the anthem is unpatriotic, however.


Earnhardt sitting in car during anthem - OK

Kaepernic sitting on bench - sonofabitch


Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:52 pm 
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JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep. Seen the footage. Did anybody care? Nope.

You know why nobody cared? Neither do I, not for certain. But I'll speculate. And for my part, it is speculation based upon a time and a culture that does not seem to exist anymore. NASCAR wasn't trying to sell themselves as something they weren't, all in the name of a "show". NASCAR represented what used to be a common generally accepted principle in life, i.e. hard work, success, service. Service to country. Service to family. Service to friends. Winning. Fruits of one's hard labor. Etc. Etc.

I'm old enough to remember when that was a principle a lot of people preached and/or tried to live by and it had nothing to do with politics or world-view or where one came from. That's my philosophical view, at this point in my life.

The other, more likely, reason that nobody cared is probably rooted closer in reality to the fact that nobody cared about NASCAR and nobody was watching.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Bham wrote:
RacerX wrote:
Bham wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep, and I don't remember anyone bitching about it back then. What has changed?



Actively protesting the flag and country during the national anthem.


They weren't protesting by sitting in their frigging cars, it's just the way it was done back then. I don't think the pilots of the flyovers are unpatriotic just because they aren't standing respectful during the anthem. I do think participating in a protest against flag and country during the anthem is unpatriotic, however.


Earnhardt sitting in car during anthem - OK

Kaepernic sitting on bench - sonofabitch


Lol


Do you have relatives who make their living in the NFL? :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:08 pm 
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jlb wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep. Seen the footage. Did anybody care? Nope.

You know why nobody cared? Neither do I, not for certain. But I'll speculate. And for my part, it is speculation based upon a time and a culture that does not seem to exist anymore. NASCAR wasn't trying to sell themselves as something they weren't, all in the name of a "show". NASCAR represented what used to be a common generally accepted principle in life, i.e. hard work, success, service. Service to country. Service to family. Service to friends. Winning. Fruits of one's hard labor. Etc. Etc.

I'm old enough to remember when that was a principle a lot of people preached and/or tried to live by and it had nothing to do with politics or world-view or where one came from. That's my philosophical view, at this point in my life.

The other, more likely, reason that nobody cared is probably rooted closer in reality to the fact that nobody cared about NASCAR and nobody was watching.


Trump made it clear that you must STAND during the anthem or you are disrespecting the country. He didn't give any other bullshit reason like your trying to pass off as an excuse. You liberal pussies are just trying to find a reason to melt. Sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Bham wrote:
jlb wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep. Seen the footage. Did anybody care? Nope.

You know why nobody cared? Neither do I, not for certain. But I'll speculate. And for my part, it is speculation based upon a time and a culture that does not seem to exist anymore. NASCAR wasn't trying to sell themselves as something they weren't, all in the name of a "show". NASCAR represented what used to be a common generally accepted principle in life, i.e. hard work, success, service. Service to country. Service to family. Service to friends. Winning. Fruits of one's hard labor. Etc. Etc.

I'm old enough to remember when that was a principle a lot of people preached and/or tried to live by and it had nothing to do with politics or world-view or where one came from. That's my philosophical view, at this point in my life.

The other, more likely, reason that nobody cared is probably rooted closer in reality to the fact that nobody cared about NASCAR and nobody was watching.


Trump made it clear that you must STAND during the anthem or you are disrespecting the country. He didn't give any other bullshit reason like your trying to pass off as an excuse. You liberal pussies are just trying to find a reason to melt. Sad.


Yes he did. That's his opinion. Get back to me when he brings the full might and power of the Federal Government to bear to enforce his "opinion". I'll even link arms with you then :wave: , because then at least, you'll have a valid complaint. Or point. Or whatever the hell else it is you're trying to accomplish.

Bonus question. Are you suggesting that POTUS doesn't have free speech rights?

You're not doing that, are you? Because that would just not be right. It would be real wrong. :crackup: :moon:

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You were right Bob. The times, they are a changing.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:12 am 
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I've considered Bham's argument and it is without merit.

Swing and a big miss, slugger. :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:16 am 
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Bham wrote:
jlb wrote:
JMB wrote:
You know this is a NASCAR board and NASCAR drivers actually sat in their frigging cars with their helmets on while the anthem was played for most of my lifetime?


Yep. Seen the footage. Did anybody care? Nope.

You know why nobody cared? Neither do I, not for certain. But I'll speculate. And for my part, it is speculation based upon a time and a culture that does not seem to exist anymore. NASCAR wasn't trying to sell themselves as something they weren't, all in the name of a "show". NASCAR represented what used to be a common generally accepted principle in life, i.e. hard work, success, service. Service to country. Service to family. Service to friends. Winning. Fruits of one's hard labor. Etc. Etc.

I'm old enough to remember when that was a principle a lot of people preached and/or tried to live by and it had nothing to do with politics or world-view or where one came from. That's my philosophical view, at this point in my life.

The other, more likely, reason that nobody cared is probably rooted closer in reality to the fact that nobody cared about NASCAR and nobody was watching.


Trump made it clear that you must STAND during the anthem or you are disrespecting the country. He didn't give any other bullshit reason like your trying to pass off as an excuse. You liberal pussies are just trying to find a reason to melt. Sad.


You must have heard the snowflake version.... Don't you know yet, that Trump rarely ever loses?

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:39 am 
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The NFL is losing this "debate". People hating on Trump because he doesn't mollycoddle fools. The Left have their talons locked into the NFL. The NFL chose sides, coming down with the small segment of the country that hates the United States and wants to remake it as payment for all of our sins. The NFL obviously wasn't paying attention to Trump's campaign, not the campaign proper but the fact that he wasn't supposed to win, but yet, still did. And that's what this is really all about, where the rubber meets the road. The NFL is just a tool for the far Left, another prop in their vitriolic crusade to take out a sitting President, and undo an election they knew they were going to win. They knew they were going to win because they, in their outlook, deserved to win.

And then a funny and marvelous and spectacular and totally unexpected thing happened (except it wasn't so much of any of that for me and millions of other Americans). They lost. Rut-row shaggy, this is going to get ugly :mrgreen:

Oh, and whoopsie. They overplayed their hand, and they were over confident. Another big WHOOPSIE :crackup: :wave:

The NFL is a pawn, albeit, a willing one. Maybe, like the Republicans, they think if they play along and give a little here or give a little there, they'll be accepted, and then maybe ZOMG, they be liked by these vampires. And the vampires will then leave them alone. Which gets to the core of why I wish Dale, Jr. would have just kept his tweets to himself. Because they'll use him until, from their perspective, he's all used up. Til he serves no more purpose for them. Then they'll cast him aside to the ground, and move on. Like so much trash, that until they got their hands on, was once a good and nice thing.

Trump is just the face of why the NFL has a problem. Trump isn't the cause. Nah, the foundation was laid decades ago. And now they, the NFL, they're screwed.

And to be fair, I must remind all that NASCAR wants to be like the NFL. They're doing a good job of achieving that goal, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:28 pm 
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As stupid as NASCAR is, even they aren't stupid enough to disrespect the anthem, flag, and country so overtly.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:49 am 
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They'll come after NASCAR. Sooner or later, they'll train their sights on NASCAR. Dale, Jr. was a fool to inject himself into this charade. The Left have been after the NFL over CTE issues for at least five years. Dale, Jr. is retiring, ostensibly, to prevent any more damage that could lead to an increase in the likelihood of CTE related trauma.

For God's sake man, just keep your mouth shut. The Left will chew him up and spit him out and not even bat an eye. And he done went and served himself up for the platter.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:41 am 
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Jr. is free to talk about whatever he wants.

But publicly, he should probably stick to NASCAR.



It seems this is at least the 2nd time he's commented on politics, both times (I don't specifically remember the other issue) he kind of tries to be cutesy straddling the fence. Both times, IMO, he's come out the worse for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:36 am 
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Kind of funny - everyone wants to say what his daddy would do to him..... but there's a story out about how an employee of big Dale's was offended by the flying of the Stars and Bars - so he took it down....

Just sayin'

PS - I don't care if people fly it for their heritage - I do care if it is used for hatred; of course, that can be done under any flag :|

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:21 am 
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Sharyl Atkisson wrote a book, titled Smear.

It is applicable to this topic, maybe only on the margins. Maybe more. Let's put it this way, it's not unrelated.

It is my opinion that the same forces that came after her, are part and parcel of the same forces that have co-opted the NFL.

y'alls mileage may vary :dunno:

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:40 pm 
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The flag you're talking about is not the Stars and Bars.

It's the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. I believe some naval units might have also used it.


With the way the US has treated people, nobody has any room to talk.

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 Post subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt, Jr and free speech in America
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 pm 
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RacerX wrote:
The flag you're talking about is not the Stars and Bars.

It's the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. I believe some naval units might have also used it.


With the way the US has treated people, nobody has any room to talk.

Yeah, I know....

....it was a long day at work today....and at that point, even though it was only about 30 minutes into being at work - it had already been a l-o-n-g day

;)

*sigh*

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