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 Post subject: Progress
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:08 pm 
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Go Trump Go!

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Last edited by RacerX on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:17 am 
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The Pope said there is no Hell. For the first time in my life I agree with the Pope. That's progress. :rok: :crackup:



in other news, demonic possessions are on the rise :wave:



POPE DECLARES NO HELL...
Vatican scrambles...
Denies report...
BUCHANAN: What did Christ die on cross to save us from?
Church Rocked...
Plaster chunks from St Peter's ceiling rain on worshippers...
UPDATE: Rise in demonic possessions...

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:23 am 
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I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:33 am 
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I believe the concept of Hell as final punishment, not a place housing unrepentant sinners being tormented for eternity. Of all the cruel things leveled at God over the centuries, that may be the cruelest. Think about someone you love dearly, and they missed the boat on the accepting Christ thing. So you live here on earth, after they're gone and you have to live every day knowing they're being tortured, and that that torture is never going to end? Is that the act of a compassionate loving God?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. And the Bible kind of backs me up on it. But I digress....

I'm quite sure that the Pope would disagree with that. And what the hell is the surprise that the Pope would say something like this. This is millenia old Catholic dogma. Hell, they pray for intercession to Mary FFS.... and they use beads.

They use beads at Mardi Gras too you know.... :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:42 am 
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mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Original link is fixed.


We're headed toward hell on earth if more libtards get appointed.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:17 pm 
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jlb wrote:
I believe the concept of Hell as final punishment, not a place housing unrepentant sinners being tormented for eternity. Of all the cruel things leveled at God over the centuries, that may be the cruelest. Think about someone you love dearly, and they missed the boat on the accepting Christ thing. So you live here on earth, after they're gone and you have to live every day knowing they're being tortured, and that that torture is never going to end? Is that the act of a compassionate loving God?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. And the Bible kind of backs me up on it. But I digress....

I'm quite sure that the Pope would disagree with that. And what the hell is the surprise that the Pope would say something like this. This is millenia old Catholic dogma. Hell, they pray for intercession to Mary FFS.... and they use beads.

They use beads at Mardi Gras too you know.... :wave:


I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:43 am 
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yes, it's a biased source. But given the reporter who said Frank said there is no hell has no proof he said that....I'm open to giving Frank the benefit of the doubt. But stop meeting with this nutjob if he's twisting your words.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:33 am 
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Jesuit is the Catholic language word for Jew.

They’re bent on world domination. Resist!!! :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:49 am 
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First Pope ever to call out the relgious scare tactic for obedience.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:11 am 
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Louie wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.


Effects are everlasting, not the means that cause the effects.

mudslinger47 wrote:
I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...


Think about it for a moment: What happens when something burns up completely? I know you've seen such things.

That's right, it is gone. Completely, and the ash is blown away with the winds, or washed back to the ground with the rain. It doesn't stay intact and burn without being consumed. What far to many believe is that a caring loving God is going to punish those who refused to accept his Son with that type of punishment for eternity. Not that their won't be punishment, but that the punishment will never end. They'll burn but not be consumed. Eternity is a long time to treat a living creature in such a manner.

Sorry, that's not a God I want to spend eternity with because that is a cruel and vindictive God. And that is not the God of the Bible. God is all-knowing (omniscient) so when he created Lucifer it has to be accepted in this context that He knew Lucifer would sin and cause the world to fall. That Lucifer would become Satan. So I aks you....

why didn't He just destroy Lucifer before he could reap his poisonous seed? It would have set a hell (pardon the pun :wave: ) of an example for the other angels and all those other worlds that exist but are shut off from our sin filled world.

Nah, not buying it. I also don't believe that we go to heaven when we die, even if we're on the good side with God. The Bible doesn't say any such thing, just as it doesn't say any such thing about an eternally burning hell.

And you can fault two millenia of Catholic church dogma for implanting both of those thought-sets so thoroughly and succinctly in the human belief system. See what happens when you play with beads and ask a woman for intercession? :wave:

Look it up if you don't believe me and don't take my word for it. I'm just a fallen sinner like everybody else.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:29 pm 
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jlb wrote:
Louie wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.


Effects are everlasting, not the means that cause the effects.

mudslinger47 wrote:
I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...


Think about it for a moment: What happens when something burns up completely? I know you've seen such things.

That's right, it is gone. Completely, and the ash is blown away with the winds, or washed back to the ground with the rain. It doesn't stay intact and burn without being consumed. What far to many believe is that a caring loving God is going to punish those who refused to accept his Son with that type of punishment for eternity. Not that their won't be punishment, but that the punishment will never end. They'll burn but not be consumed. Eternity is a long time to treat a living creature in such a manner.

Sorry, that's not a God I want to spend eternity with because that is a cruel and vindictive God. And that is not the God of the Bible. God is all-knowing (omniscient) so when he created Lucifer it has to be accepted in this context that He knew Lucifer would sin and cause the world to fall. That Lucifer would become Satan. So I aks you....

why didn't He just destroy Lucifer before he could reap his poisonous seed? It would have set a hell (pardon the pun :wave: ) of an example for the other angels and all those other worlds that exist but are shut off from our sin filled world.

Nah, not buying it. I also don't believe that we go to heaven when we die, even if we're on the good side with God. The Bible doesn't say any such thing, just as it doesn't say any such thing about an eternally burning hell.

And you can fault two millenia of Catholic church dogma for implanting both of those thought-sets so thoroughly and succinctly in the human belief system. See what happens when you play with beads and ask a woman for intercession? :wave:

Look it up if you don't believe me and don't take my word for it. I'm just a fallen sinner like everybody else.


The Bible predates anything Catholic... and again I say, if there is no hell, there is no heaven and there was no need for Jesus.... You can't take Christianity and mold it to the way you want it... its pretty etched in stone in my way of thinking .... The Bible says its is an eternal lake of fire and you'll burn for eternity... you know that to be the case, then you do something so you don't have to worry about it.... I anguish daily about my Dad and my Mother because I don't really know.... so I do have dogs in this show... I also know, for a fact Heaven exists..... and if Heaven is there, so is hell....

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:32 pm 
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mudslinger47 wrote:
jlb wrote:
Louie wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.


Effects are everlasting, not the means that cause the effects.

mudslinger47 wrote:
I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...


Think about it for a moment: What happens when something burns up completely? I know you've seen such things.

That's right, it is gone. Completely, and the ash is blown away with the winds, or washed back to the ground with the rain. It doesn't stay intact and burn without being consumed. What far to many believe is that a caring loving God is going to punish those who refused to accept his Son with that type of punishment for eternity. Not that their won't be punishment, but that the punishment will never end. They'll burn but not be consumed. Eternity is a long time to treat a living creature in such a manner.

Sorry, that's not a God I want to spend eternity with because that is a cruel and vindictive God. And that is not the God of the Bible. God is all-knowing (omniscient) so when he created Lucifer it has to be accepted in this context that He knew Lucifer would sin and cause the world to fall. That Lucifer would become Satan. So I aks you....

why didn't He just destroy Lucifer before he could reap his poisonous seed? It would have set a hell (pardon the pun :wave: ) of an example for the other angels and all those other worlds that exist but are shut off from our sin filled world.

Nah, not buying it. I also don't believe that we go to heaven when we die, even if we're on the good side with God. The Bible doesn't say any such thing, just as it doesn't say any such thing about an eternally burning hell.

And you can fault two millenia of Catholic church dogma for implanting both of those thought-sets so thoroughly and succinctly in the human belief system. See what happens when you play with beads and ask a woman for intercession? :wave:

Look it up if you don't believe me and don't take my word for it. I'm just a fallen sinner like everybody else.


The Bible predates anything Catholic... and again I say, if there is no hell, there is no heaven and there was no need for Jesus.... You can't take Christianity and mold it to the way you want it... its pretty etched in stone in my way of thinking .... The Bible says its is an eternal lake of fire and you'll burn for eternity... you know that to be the case, then you do something so you don't have to worry about it.... I anguish daily about my Dad and my Mother because I don't really know.... so I do have dogs in this show... I also know, for a fact Heaven exists..... and if Heaven is there, so is hell....


Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
jlb wrote:
Louie wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.


Effects are everlasting, not the means that cause the effects.

mudslinger47 wrote:
I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...


Think about it for a moment: What happens when something burns up completely? I know you've seen such things.

That's right, it is gone. Completely, and the ash is blown away with the winds, or washed back to the ground with the rain. It doesn't stay intact and burn without being consumed. What far to many believe is that a caring loving God is going to punish those who refused to accept his Son with that type of punishment for eternity. Not that their won't be punishment, but that the punishment will never end. They'll burn but not be consumed. Eternity is a long time to treat a living creature in such a manner.

Sorry, that's not a God I want to spend eternity with because that is a cruel and vindictive God. And that is not the God of the Bible. God is all-knowing (omniscient) so when he created Lucifer it has to be accepted in this context that He knew Lucifer would sin and cause the world to fall. That Lucifer would become Satan. So I aks you....

why didn't He just destroy Lucifer before he could reap his poisonous seed? It would have set a hell (pardon the pun :wave: ) of an example for the other angels and all those other worlds that exist but are shut off from our sin filled world.

Nah, not buying it. I also don't believe that we go to heaven when we die, even if we're on the good side with God. The Bible doesn't say any such thing, just as it doesn't say any such thing about an eternally burning hell.

And you can fault two millenia of Catholic church dogma for implanting both of those thought-sets so thoroughly and succinctly in the human belief system. See what happens when you play with beads and ask a woman for intercession? :wave:

Look it up if you don't believe me and don't take my word for it. I'm just a fallen sinner like everybody else.


The Bible predates anything Catholic... and again I say, if there is no hell, there is no heaven and there was no need for Jesus.... You can't take Christianity and mold it to the way you want it... its pretty etched in stone in my way of thinking .... The Bible says its is an eternal lake of fire and you'll burn for eternity... you know that to be the case, then you do something so you don't have to worry about it.... I anguish daily about my Dad and my Mother because I don't really know.... so I do have dogs in this show... I also know, for a fact Heaven exists..... and if Heaven is there, so is hell....


Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Why yes, I believe the Old Testament does say something about eating shellfish. Can you find in the Bible where that might be superseded?

Rape is a sin. The punishment for sin is death. The punishment for rape is the same as the punishment as not believing in God: death. What does the Bible proclaim about atonement for sin? (hint: look in Romans 6)

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Superseded? Not sure about that. Christ said the entire law would be fulfilled. But grace is for the 100% of mortals who fail the law.

Oh this shit is deeeep now. Need a drink :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Louie wrote:
. But grace is for the 100% of mortals who fail the law.:


You forgot the "recognise Jesus for who he is" part... Simply put, you don't believein Him, he won't believe in you....

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Louie wrote:
Superseded? Not sure about that.


Debatable, but Acts and Timothy address it.

I'm surprised he didn't go with mixing fabrics, but, I suspect he is ignorant of what the Bible actually says.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 am 
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Louie wrote:
Superseded? Not sure about that. Christ said the entire law would be fulfilled. But grace is for the 100% of mortals who fail the law.

Oh this shit is deeeep now. Need a drink :wave:


Christ was the law.

The OT looked forward to the cross for salvation and with grace. We look back to the cross for salvation with grace. The only law nullified by Christ's death was the sacrificial law, which is detailed quite thoroughly in the OT.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:49 am 
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mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


Bham is correct about clean and unclean foods, regardless of the intent behind the post. Bypassing the legalism behind it, you eat to much of the wrong type of food and you have health consequences. When Peter was warned about judging people for what they ate and thought them not deserving of the good Word (because they were Gentiles) he was admonished to plant the seed and not judge the Gentiles based on their lifestyle, to go to them and preach the word (plant the seeds) and let God harvest the crop.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, but other than legalistically, the admonition about clean and unclean foods is still valid for reasons wholly and completely centered in good health. They still apply, but just not with the force of "canonical" law.

And Duane, I am not taking Christianity and molding it into anything that it isn't or to suit my needs. Talk to the Catholic Church about that. And while you're having a think with them, ask yourself why Protestants more resemble Catholicism today in modern times than they ever have in the long history since Martin Luther went renegade.

btw, based on the updated link, I still agree with the Pope even if he is claiming that it was fake news about hell :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:59 am 
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mudslinger47 wrote:
jlb wrote:
Louie wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
I beg to differ with the Pope, but with that statement, he'll get to find out in person.... wonder what he thinks the Bible is, a comic book? :?



Doesn't the bible say the ever after losers will be cast into a lake of fire and be forever dead?


That ain't the pop culture eternal hell, is it.


Effects are everlasting, not the means that cause the effects.

mudslinger47 wrote:
I have done everything I can to convert all my family and loved ones, I can lead a horse to water... and asa far as the loving compasionate God, what does he owe the ones that didn't believe? It ain't like they didn't have a chance ya know... If there is no hell, there is no reason for Jesus dieing for our sins.... And no, the Bible does not back you up... Mathew pretty much states it clearly..... Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Actually read from vs 31 to vs 46... Rev 20- 14...... Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. no punches pulled... and yes, I believe it with all my heart...


Think about it for a moment: What happens when something burns up completely? I know you've seen such things.

That's right, it is gone. Completely, and the ash is blown away with the winds, or washed back to the ground with the rain. It doesn't stay intact and burn without being consumed. What far to many believe is that a caring loving God is going to punish those who refused to accept his Son with that type of punishment for eternity. Not that their won't be punishment, but that the punishment will never end. They'll burn but not be consumed. Eternity is a long time to treat a living creature in such a manner.

Sorry, that's not a God I want to spend eternity with because that is a cruel and vindictive God. And that is not the God of the Bible. God is all-knowing (omniscient) so when he created Lucifer it has to be accepted in this context that He knew Lucifer would sin and cause the world to fall. That Lucifer would become Satan. So I aks you....

why didn't He just destroy Lucifer before he could reap his poisonous seed? It would have set a hell (pardon the pun :wave: ) of an example for the other angels and all those other worlds that exist but are shut off from our sin filled world.

Nah, not buying it. I also don't believe that we go to heaven when we die, even if we're on the good side with God. The Bible doesn't say any such thing, just as it doesn't say any such thing about an eternally burning hell.

And you can fault two millenia of Catholic church dogma for implanting both of those thought-sets so thoroughly and succinctly in the human belief system. See what happens when you play with beads and ask a woman for intercession? :wave:

Look it up if you don't believe me and don't take my word for it. I'm just a fallen sinner like everybody else.


The Bible predates anything Catholic... and again I say, if there is no hell, there is no heaven and there was no need for Jesus.... You can't take Christianity and mold it to the way you want it... its pretty etched in stone in my way of thinking .... The Bible says its is an eternal lake of fire and you'll burn for eternity... you know that to be the case, then you do something so you don't have to worry about it.... I anguish daily about my Dad and my Mother because I don't really know.... so I do have dogs in this show... I also know, for a fact Heaven exists..... and if Heaven is there, so is hell....


Heaven does indeed exist, I believe that. But I do not believe that there are any souls up there walking streets lined with gold in glory, looking down on us sinners here. I believe all of those who accepted Christ, sleep in peace until the day of resurrection.

and btw, this stuff is discernable it's not a mystery. Ninety-nine percent of the answers are unknowing, because we see through a glass darkly (Hebrews). But the Bible gives us enough to discern what we need and I'll just point to one of my favoritest verses in it, e.g. Revelation 1:3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


That's a verse that says pay attention to what I am about to tell you, understand it and don't forget it.

The Bible is not the mystery some like to make it out to be. All one needs to do is read it. That's why Catholics didn't want it printed back in the day. They had to be invested in widespread ignorance :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


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Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?

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mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


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Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


This should be interesting.

What does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is betrothed to someone?

Is it somehow different?


But, you really shouldn't concern yourself with piddly stuff like you've mentioned.

The Bible states Jesus is the only way to eternal life.

If you don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, died on the cross as payment for your sins, and rose again, there's really no hope for you. And it's not any of our job to try to convince you otherwise. But, you've just been told, which is our job as Christians.

If you don't believe that, what does some obscure passage have to do with anything?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:41 pm 
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RacerX wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


This should be interesting.

What does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is betrothed to someone?

Is it somehow different?


But, you really shouldn't concern yourself with piddly stuff like you've mentioned.

The Bible states Jesus is the only way to eternal life.

If you don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, died on the cross as payment for your sins, and rose again, there's really no hope for you. And it's not any of our job to try to convince you otherwise. But, you've just been told, which is our job as Christians.

If you don't believe that, what does some obscure passage have to do with anything?


Don't worry sir, I understand why you don't want to answer my question. I wouldn't either since it doesn't fit the narrative.


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I've answered your question. You are the one not answering questions, because they don't fit your narrative.

But, to restate, the penalty for rape, or any sin, is death.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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Quote:
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


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That's referencing a dowry, not rape. :roll:


You really don't have to try to justify your belief to me. It's your choice. But hey, if it's making you feel better.....

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


Don't know what yur exact thought is, but Deuteronomy says the rapist must die.... that what your getting at?

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:00 pm 
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mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


Don't know what yur exact thought is, but Deuteronomy says the rapist must die.... that what your getting at?


It's an athiest talking point.

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If you don't believe and don't want to believe, fine with me... don't.... but why try to belittle those that do? How do we harm you, we choose to believe and you don't... I told you what your fate is, if you choose not to believe it then fine, don't.... jlb , now you see why the eternal fire? :|

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:03 pm 
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RacerX wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
Bham wrote:
Isn't it also etched in stone something about eating shellfish?

What does the bible recommend as punishment for a rapist?


Maybe, as I have mentioned before, if you want to debate the Bible, you aught to read it first... then you wouldn't make your self look ridiculous..... :wis:


I would expect a man of God, as you claim to be, could put up a reasonable response. Sad that all you can do is deflect.


That was a reasonable answer, if your going to debate something, don't you believe you should know a little about it?


Again, another response of yours that lacks substance, probably because you don't know as much as you claim. So, what does the bible instruct if a man rapes a woman who is not betrothed to someone?


Don't know what yur exact thought is, but Deuteronomy says the rapist must die.... that what your getting at?


It's an athiest talking point.

yeah, I know... he's google queen....

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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mudslinger47 wrote:
If you don't believe and don't want to believe, fine with me... don't.... but why try to belittle those that do?



Doubt.

As you know, Romans tells us we all know there is a God.

It's just a way to outsmart God in the athiest's mind. Makes that uneasy feeling (knowing there is a God, but doubting His existence) a little less strong because thay is so smert. They want to be like God, like the serpent alluded to Adam and Eve.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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RacerX wrote:
That's referencing a dowry, not rape. :roll:


You really don't have to try to justify your belief to me. It's your choice. But hey, if it's making you feel better.....

Oh, so now it's a dowry. So does that mean a father is owed money every time a cherry is popped? I mean it is etched in stone, correct?

Keep spinning.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.

So, why is it important to you? Or is that another question you are going to ignore and hold us to a different standard than you do yourself? I mean, lie to me all you want, but at least be honest with yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:46 am 
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RacerX wrote:
It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.


Indeed. The morality underlying that and every law ever made on matters between human beings is etched in perpetuity, although the methods in which cultures apply penalty for violating said laws has varied over the course of human history.

But the moral implication for the existence of such laws as is being discussed here, that never changed.

after re-reading through this thread after my Sunday post (twice :wave: ) I want to add (repeat)

OT law applied to the Jewish people specifically and singularly, not the rest of the world. The Jews were to be a witness to the world, the OT evangelists if one wishes to use that analogy :D


They screwed it up. Screwed it up big league :crackup: :wave:

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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RacerX wrote:
It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.

So, why is it important to you? Or is that another question you are going to ignore and hold us to a different standard than you do yourself? I mean, lie to me all you want, but at least be honest with yourself.


Yes, I agree that what I am referencing looks like it was written by the men of the time who treated women like property instead of something from an all living immortal being. So which parts of the Bible are we to follow and which parts are we to ignore? Who gets to pick and choose?


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Bham wrote:
RacerX wrote:
It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.

So, why is it important to you? Or is that another question you are going to ignore and hold us to a different standard than you do yourself? I mean, lie to me all you want, but at least be honest with yourself.


Yes, I agree that what I am referencing looks like it was written by the men of the time who treated women like property instead of something from an all living immortal being. So which parts of the Bible are we to follow and which parts are we to ignore? Who gets to pick and choose?


We are to follow it all, in context. It's not that hard of a concept, except we make it one.

Again, you can believe whatever you want. I struggle to care about what you believe, perhaps a weakness of mine and not very Christian. The fact that you keep asking questions is good, I suppose there is hope for you. I'd urge you to concentrate on what Jesus said was most important: Loving God with all your heart soul and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Most people fail at these regularly (see above: I struggle to care about what you believe).

If you would like, I would be happy to send you a Bible. PM me your address.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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RacerX wrote:
Bham wrote:
RacerX wrote:
It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.

So, why is it important to you? Or is that another question you are going to ignore and hold us to a different standard than you do yourself? I mean, lie to me all you want, but at least be honest with yourself.


Yes, I agree that what I am referencing looks like it was written by the men of the time who treated women like property instead of something from an all living immortal being. So which parts of the Bible are we to follow and which parts are we to ignore? Who gets to pick and choose?


We are to follow it all, in context. It's not that hard of a concept, except we make it one.

Again, you can believe whatever you want. I struggle to care about what you believe, perhaps a weakness of mine and not very Christian. The fact that you keep asking questions is good, I suppose there is hope for you. I'd urge you to concentrate on what Jesus said was most important: Loving God with all your heart soul and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Most people fail at these regularly (see above: I struggle to care about what you believe).

If you would like, I would be happy to send you a Bible. PM me your address.


Appreciate the offer, but I already own several copies including one that has my name engraved on the cover. I even have a wooden cross necklace hanging from the rear view mirror of my truck that was given to me by a nun. I know the stories and the teachings. I'm just not afraid to be inquisitive and call bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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..IF you have all that, and know all that, then you also should know that all Law in the Old Testament was over ruled by Jesus with Grace because it is a total impossibility for anyone to go to heaven trying to live by the Law, even those who wrote it....

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None is the amount of care I have about nuns. I think you want Louie.

I also find repugnant most religious jewelry, bumper stickers, t-shirts, trinkets, etc...


When Jesus said take up your cross and follow Him, I'm pretty sure He wasn't talking about a wooden necklace from a nun.

I'm no Catholic expert, but if it's hanging from the mirror in your truck, I believe you really need to consider getting a dangly of that Christopher dude. Else you may be counting beads all afternoon.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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Bham wrote:
RacerX wrote:
Bham wrote:
RacerX wrote:
It was always a dowry. :roll:

What you are referencing was a Hebrew law. They usually were written on scrolls, not stone. I suppose there might be interpretational disagreements on if it applies to Christians (Hebrews were Jews you know). But, eh.... not important to me.

So, why is it important to you? Or is that another question you are going to ignore and hold us to a different standard than you do yourself? I mean, lie to me all you want, but at least be honest with yourself.


Yes, I agree that what I am referencing looks like it was written by the men of the time who treated women like property instead of something from an all living immortal being. So which parts of the Bible are we to follow and which parts are we to ignore? Who gets to pick and choose?


We are to follow it all, in context. It's not that hard of a concept, except we make it one.

Again, you can believe whatever you want. I struggle to care about what you believe, perhaps a weakness of mine and not very Christian. The fact that you keep asking questions is good, I suppose there is hope for you. I'd urge you to concentrate on what Jesus said was most important: Loving God with all your heart soul and mind, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Most people fail at these regularly (see above: I struggle to care about what you believe).

If you would like, I would be happy to send you a Bible. PM me your address.


Appreciate the offer, but I already own several copies including one that has my name engraved on the cover. I even have a wooden cross necklace hanging from the rear view mirror of my truck that was given to me by a nun. I know the stories and the teachings. I'm just not afraid to be inquisitive and call bullshit.


One of the things I have learned in my life as it concerns the Bible is that a literal reading is where a lot of people go wrong. Your interpretation of woman as property is one potential area for misunderstanding. I'm not calling you on that personally, I'm just observing because I have heard that analogy before. I have heard quite a few analogies to OT times but I also believe that God gave those laws to the Jews after he freed them from slavery because those were the laws they lived under in the heathen lands from which he freed them. That's a generalization, but I believe it is an important context to consider and there is where we get to the rub with my earlier statement concerning literal readings of Scripture.

The context of the times in which they were written and the people they were written for.



I'll offer a similar analogy from the New Testament and that would be the one aimed at not allowing women to speak in church. In those days, tradition and custom dictated that women sat with women and men sat with men while attending services. Women would talk across the church to their husbands during the sermon and this would interrupt the preaching. It had nothing to do with keeping women in their place or silencing them, despite whatever patriarchal cultural system was in place.

Like anything, context can be over-played or abused to the point of justification for bad behavior, but by and large historical context is imperative. Applying our modern culture to people and nations that have not existed for two to four thousand years can cause a lot of misunderstanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
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mudslinger47 wrote:
..IF you have all that, and know all that, then you also should know that all Law in the Old Testament was over ruled by Jesus with Grace because it is a total impossibility for anyone to go to heaven trying to live by the Law, even those who wrote it....


The 10 Commandments were not nullified. The sacrificial system and the laws that governed it were rendered moot when Christ died. Some try to make the argument that Christ did so with his pronouncement to love God and love your neighbor, but if you break down the 10 Commandments into two distinct groups, the first four deal with loving God above all else, and the last six deal with loving your neighbor.

There was no nullification of any of the commandments, Christ just simplified them in the context of what he was trying to teach at the time he made the pronouncement. Check it out, you'll see what I'm getting at :D

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jlb wrote:
mudslinger47 wrote:
..IF you have all that, and know all that, then you also should know that all Law in the Old Testament was over ruled by Jesus with Grace because it is a total impossibility for anyone to go to heaven trying to live by the Law, even those who wrote it....


The 10 Commandments were not nullified. The sacrificial system and the laws that governed it were rendered moot when Christ died. Some try to make the argument that Christ did so with his pronouncement to love God and love your neighbor, but if you break down the 10 Commandments into two distinct groups, the first four deal with loving God above all else, and the last six deal with loving your neighbor.

There was no nullification of any of the commandments, Christ just simplified them in the context of what he was trying to teach at the time he made the pronouncement. Check it out, you'll see what I'm getting at :D


Didn't say nullified, said over ruled because no man can go through life with out sin and you can't get to heaven through works, Gods Grace is the only way to Heaven

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I had an interesting thought process last night whilst listening to Mark Levin trash Trump for trashing Amazon, and it came to a finely honed point when Mr. Levin was intractable with what I thought were two pretty good callers, both back to back in his third hour.


The Jews had it all. They had God. They had the law. They had the prophecies of Christ. They had the blessings. They had the knowledge.

Yet so rapped up were they in their unique place in history, that the laws and customs became more important than what those laws and customs portended. And they missed the coming of their King, because they were deceived by their nuances into believing it would be a conquering king.

How is it that "three wisemen" recognized the signs? It is most likely they were Gentiles. Or had lost their faith and fell into back-sliding. Or maybe they were non-believers. Workers. They talked in the bars of the day, or amongst themselves while doing their labors. Or took note of what the Scribes had to say.

Were they heathens? Rough around the edges? Dirty, ugly, not the beautiful people of the world. Did they ever have privilege? Or where they slum residents of that times worst places of residence?


Yet they saw and took note and acted upon what all of the smart and educated and privileged people of the times missed. What the holders of the sacred words and texts and traditions, the masters of the sanctuary included, missed.

And they showed up in an animal manger bearing what were considered in those times as very worthy and precious gifts.


The smart people sometimes are so smart and intelligent that they forget how they got that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Progress
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:25 pm 
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jlb wrote:
I had an interesting thought process last night whilst listening to Mark Levin trash Trump for trashing Amazon, and it came to a finely honed point when Mr. Levin was intractable with what I thought were two pretty good callers, both back to back in his third hour.


The Jews had it all. They had God. They had the law. They had the prophecies of Christ. They had the blessings. They had the knowledge.

Yet so rapped up were they in their unique place in history, that the laws and customs became more important than what those laws and customs portended. And they missed the coming of their King, because they were deceived by their nuances into believing it would be a conquering king.

How is it that "three wisemen" recognized the signs? It is most likely they were Gentiles. Or had lost their faith and fell into back-sliding. Or maybe they were non-believers. Workers. They talked in the bars of the day, or amongst themselves while doing their labors. Or took note of what the Scribes had to say.

Were they heathens? Rough around the edges? Dirty, ugly, not the beautiful people of the world. Did they ever have privilege? Or where they slum residents of that times worst places of residence?


Yet they saw and took note and acted upon what all of the smart and educated and privileged people of the times missed. What the holders of the sacred words and texts and traditions, the masters of the sanctuary included, missed.

And they showed up in an animal manger bearing what were considered in those times as very worthy and precious gifts.


The smart people sometimes are so smart and intelligent that they forget how they got that way.


In all the studies that I have done, the Jews were waiting for a conquering King to bring them there idea of salvation, which was to kick their oppressors butt.... The Trinity did that, but not in the way that the Jews had conceptualized, hence, they missed it and they still miss it...

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If your gonna fight, fight like the third monkey on the ramp of the ark, and brother, its starting to rain!!!


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